No.
Even with USA drone, weapon, and humanitarian support - what is the cost/benefit analysis of conquering Russia's annexed territories of Ukraine?
The cost isn't money based, because of USA willing to pay for the War with Russia, which Russia started, and was egged on, by Biden (minor incursion comments) but Ukrainian lives are a cost of fighting against Russia. Is the benefit just reclaiming the territory of Ukraine, or is there anything more, like Revenge against Putin? I'm just worried about Nuclear Armeggedon - that's all, because once Putin's Russia is losing, because USAs weapon tech is that powerful - Russia can play the sore loser card, Nuking everything. And: Bye, bye world.
How will peace be negotiated? Can peace be negotiated, without a sore loser card (Nuclear) be played, by either Russia or Biden's USA? Putin is old, and unpopular, and I'm more concerned about future Russian leadership, once peace is attained.
The cost isn't money based, because of USA willing to pay for the War with Russia, which Russia started, and was egged on, by Biden (minor incursion comments) but Ukrainian lives are a cost of fighting against Russia. Is the benefit just reclaiming the territory of Ukraine, or is there anything more, like Revenge against Putin? I'm just worried about Nuclear Armeggedon - that's all, because once Putin's Russia is losing, because USAs weapon tech is that powerful - Russia can play the sore loser card, Nuking everything. And: Bye, bye world.
How will peace be negotiated? Can peace be negotiated, without a sore loser card (Nuclear) be played, by either Russia or Biden's USA? Putin is old, and unpopular, and I'm more concerned about future Russian leadership, once peace is attained.
Wow way too much to dissect here. You state A LOT OF OPINION as if it was FACT. If you are wishing to start a discussion you need to differentiate your Opinions from Facts.
Russia/Putin is the aggressor in this war - Fact
Russia/Putin was egged on by Biden - Opinion
Cost isn't money based - Opinion (Cost IS partially - but nut exclusively money based)
Assuming Putin will play the "losing card" and nuke everything - Opinion, not fact.
Russia/Putin is the aggressor in this war - Fact
Russia/Putin was egged on by Biden - Opinion
Cost isn't money based - Opinion (Cost IS partially - but nut exclusively money based)
Assuming Putin will play the "losing card" and nuke everything - Opinion, not fact.
Slava Ukraine!
@JaCrispy62 said in #4:
> Assuming Putin will play the "losing card" and nuke everything - Opinion, not fact.
Prophecy is history written in advance. I'm not saying Putin will Nuke everything, and Bye, bye world, but if his deeds follow his words - he will do that, as that option is not off the table, and he has the capability and force to do that. We obviously can't see in the mind of Putin, but Should we take his 'threat' seriously? What's your opinion? What is the best/worst case scenario, either way?
You think, if we take Putin at his word, then Best case of War is:
You think, if we don't take Putin at his word, then Worst case of War is:
You think, if we take Putin at his word, then Best case of trading land for Peace is:
You think, if we don't take Putin at his word, then Worst trading land for of Peace is:
I think that the Risk of Nuclear Armeggedon is too great! (taking Biden's comment's at face value).
I think Ukrainian lives are worth more than the 4 annexed regions of Ukraine. (trading land for peace).
But, what is the solution? Pay more human cost, for the benefit of winning land - where the "sore loser" card is played?
(this is the most probable War case, imo)
This might be a Zugzwang moment. If we have peace, at the land expense - can Putin be trusted - or compelled to the agreement, without treachery?
How can the United Nations (the forum for the World and Peace) save the situation, where even Russia is on its Security Council? Is peace a possibility, you think?
> Assuming Putin will play the "losing card" and nuke everything - Opinion, not fact.
Prophecy is history written in advance. I'm not saying Putin will Nuke everything, and Bye, bye world, but if his deeds follow his words - he will do that, as that option is not off the table, and he has the capability and force to do that. We obviously can't see in the mind of Putin, but Should we take his 'threat' seriously? What's your opinion? What is the best/worst case scenario, either way?
You think, if we take Putin at his word, then Best case of War is:
You think, if we don't take Putin at his word, then Worst case of War is:
You think, if we take Putin at his word, then Best case of trading land for Peace is:
You think, if we don't take Putin at his word, then Worst trading land for of Peace is:
I think that the Risk of Nuclear Armeggedon is too great! (taking Biden's comment's at face value).
I think Ukrainian lives are worth more than the 4 annexed regions of Ukraine. (trading land for peace).
But, what is the solution? Pay more human cost, for the benefit of winning land - where the "sore loser" card is played?
(this is the most probable War case, imo)
This might be a Zugzwang moment. If we have peace, at the land expense - can Putin be trusted - or compelled to the agreement, without treachery?
How can the United Nations (the forum for the World and Peace) save the situation, where even Russia is on its Security Council? Is peace a possibility, you think?
@Approximation where do you live? How about we give 20% of your country including your own home to russia, just not to make putin angry? C'mon, this is so little price for the peace in the whole world!
You think my proposition makes no sense? How would giving your own home to putin stop the war? Well, it's the same with Ukraine, and it was the same with Czechoslovakia in WW2: giving territories to aggressor will not satisfy him, it only gives more appetite. Therefore the only peaceful solution possible in this war is the full defeat of russia.
And by the way, the thing you intentionally "forgot" is there are Ukrainians living on occupied by russia territories, and they have to be liberated from this. Ukrainians fight not only for land but also for people, and national survival in general.
You think my proposition makes no sense? How would giving your own home to putin stop the war? Well, it's the same with Ukraine, and it was the same with Czechoslovakia in WW2: giving territories to aggressor will not satisfy him, it only gives more appetite. Therefore the only peaceful solution possible in this war is the full defeat of russia.
And by the way, the thing you intentionally "forgot" is there are Ukrainians living on occupied by russia territories, and they have to be liberated from this. Ukrainians fight not only for land but also for people, and national survival in general.
@Alex_1987 said in #7:
> @Approximation where do you live? How about we give 20% of your country including your own home to russia, just not to make putin angry? C'mon, this is so little price for the peace in the whole world!
> You think my proposition makes no sense? How would giving your own home to putin stop the war? Well, it's the same with Ukraine, and it was the same with Czechoslovakia in WW2: giving territories to aggressor will not satisfy him, it only gives more appetite. Therefore the only peaceful solution possible in this war is the full defeat of russia.
> And by the way, the thing you intentionally "forgot" is there are Ukrainians living on occupied by russia territories, and they have to be liberated from this. Ukrainians fight not only for land but also for people, and national survival in general.
Does the world have a good refugee policy - like the Statue of Liberty?
Given a compassionate world that has a Statue of Liberty, I'd rather have my Life + Pursuit of Happiness, rather than Liberty, getting my home back.
Given a world that doesn't care about refugees, I'd probably fight the good and losing battle for the sake of my home, hoping that I'm not killed in the process.
Is the world, compassionate towards Urainian refugees, or would the world under leaders like Biden rather fund them with Military equipment, not caring if they die, but serving a purpose, of purely egged on violence?
Of course, without a home in Ukraine, its not personal to me, just theoritical. But, which matters more to the USA and the World? Would we rather save Ukrainian lives, or save Ukrainan terrorities?
And, if we value Ukrainian lives > Ukrainian territory, then how long can we keep the peace, once that trade is made? Can we get Putin's Russia to sign a deal, like a Marriage, until death does the deal part? And, if Putin divorces USA and the world, then that is not without World War 3 consequences, against Russia?
Hopefully, Russia is a rational 'Chess Playing' state actor, and doesn't see it, irrationally - because, then the world would be doomed, either way, imo.
> @Approximation where do you live? How about we give 20% of your country including your own home to russia, just not to make putin angry? C'mon, this is so little price for the peace in the whole world!
> You think my proposition makes no sense? How would giving your own home to putin stop the war? Well, it's the same with Ukraine, and it was the same with Czechoslovakia in WW2: giving territories to aggressor will not satisfy him, it only gives more appetite. Therefore the only peaceful solution possible in this war is the full defeat of russia.
> And by the way, the thing you intentionally "forgot" is there are Ukrainians living on occupied by russia territories, and they have to be liberated from this. Ukrainians fight not only for land but also for people, and national survival in general.
Does the world have a good refugee policy - like the Statue of Liberty?
Given a compassionate world that has a Statue of Liberty, I'd rather have my Life + Pursuit of Happiness, rather than Liberty, getting my home back.
Given a world that doesn't care about refugees, I'd probably fight the good and losing battle for the sake of my home, hoping that I'm not killed in the process.
Is the world, compassionate towards Urainian refugees, or would the world under leaders like Biden rather fund them with Military equipment, not caring if they die, but serving a purpose, of purely egged on violence?
Of course, without a home in Ukraine, its not personal to me, just theoritical. But, which matters more to the USA and the World? Would we rather save Ukrainian lives, or save Ukrainan terrorities?
And, if we value Ukrainian lives > Ukrainian territory, then how long can we keep the peace, once that trade is made? Can we get Putin's Russia to sign a deal, like a Marriage, until death does the deal part? And, if Putin divorces USA and the world, then that is not without World War 3 consequences, against Russia?
Hopefully, Russia is a rational 'Chess Playing' state actor, and doesn't see it, irrationally - because, then the world would be doomed, either way, imo.
@Approximation said in #8:
>
You remind me one russian dude on these forums half a year ago who wondered, why Ukrainians simply did not "move away" giving up useless territories. That was his peaceful solution to everything. And by his words Polish people in 1939 just did not have good place to leave, because aggressor countries were from both sides. Well, unlucky then...
>
You remind me one russian dude on these forums half a year ago who wondered, why Ukrainians simply did not "move away" giving up useless territories. That was his peaceful solution to everything. And by his words Polish people in 1939 just did not have good place to leave, because aggressor countries were from both sides. Well, unlucky then...
@Alex_1987 said in #9:
> You remind me one russian dude on these forums half a year ago who wondered, why Ukrainians simply did not "move away" giving up useless territories. That was his peaceful solution to everything. And by his words Polish people in 1939 just did not have good place to leave, because aggressor countries were from both sides. Well, unlucky then...
Regardless of whatever my Nationality is painted as - I want a peace deal signed. Now, if the world truly wants World War 3 with Russia, then it would fight for every square centi-meter of Ukraine, even after Russia annexed it. (imo)
Is that what you want?
> You remind me one russian dude on these forums half a year ago who wondered, why Ukrainians simply did not "move away" giving up useless territories. That was his peaceful solution to everything. And by his words Polish people in 1939 just did not have good place to leave, because aggressor countries were from both sides. Well, unlucky then...
Regardless of whatever my Nationality is painted as - I want a peace deal signed. Now, if the world truly wants World War 3 with Russia, then it would fight for every square centi-meter of Ukraine, even after Russia annexed it. (imo)
Is that what you want?
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